S3_0 + : document tile topology , vs map topology , vs client view for newcomers
alain_bkr The lack of possibility to use iso tilesets for overhead map topology was *by far* the most reported "bug" in S2_6 where it was prevented by the way you expect. So we had to back a bit to the S3_0 way.
Some related tickets where the current implementation was introduced: https://www.hostedredmine.com/issues/653727 https://www.hostedredmine.com/issues/777520
alain_bkr I think that in gtk3.22 client, for square tilesets, one can know if the tileset fits the geometry by looking at the "white rectangle" in the minimap vue :
=> maybe for 'square' we can automagically detect it ? (this does not change the need for a 4th default tileset, but this seems an easy fix).
For hex, it is always a rectangle, but that does not prove anything , the minimap seems visually only slightly distorted (flatten in one direction and streched in the other) , but connectivity has changed too (something like ripped horizontally , horizontal road are no more connected and seems dash-dot (hex map represented like an isohex one)
Is there some regression relative to S2_5, which is what users wanted us to return to?
alain_bkr Reply To cazfi
The lack of possibility to use iso tilesets for overhead map topology was *by far* the most reported "bug" in S2_6 where it was prevented by the way you expect. So we had to back a bit to the S3_0 way.
I don't understand :-(
One can draw something isometric inside a square base (like your screen which is rectangular), and this i already the case even in overhead : we do not see only the hairs of units, we see them in pseudo perspective (maybe not isometric) on top of a square ground tile. Or maybe compared with other games ?
Having an iso-square should not prevent the usage of overhead-square.
I try to reformulate There are different problems:
There was a big job to make these scenario maps, and we really know how England or Europe map looks like, so we cannot afford putting a wrong tileset which will distort the map (And i love 1901 scenario, it makes me think a lot, about freeciv AI, and about the WW1/2)
I want trident back , with a selector for corresponding artwork. :-) Even if i agree i would prefer a more pretty tileset, bigger. Maybe when i have time again i ll try to see if an Imagemagick script can double the size of everything. Or does it need more work ?
Strictly speaking, freeciv uses only 2 different topologies : square vs hex (8 links with neighbouring tiles, vs 6), and i see no need to add triangle (3 links) and thats all that can be done. (after doc/HACKING i have read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_tilings_by_convex_regular_polygons and MC Escher ...)
3.x is still beta, so it is still possible to fix the savefile format if needed, game3.sav.xz and client-3.rc to store
alain_bkr Reply To cazfi
Is there some regression relative to S2_5, which is what users wanted us to return to?
No regression, everything is correct as i should have guessed.
I was confused by the pi/4 map rotation when i checked stuff in 2.6 with overhead = trident , and then compared with 3.0 : the screen changed to square-iso = amplio because of default_square_tileset=amplio, and the screen vue was 'distorted' due to perspective. But topology is the same (in game distances, connections ...)
Btw, now i have understood, i notice that the same thing could done for hex <-> isohex, with pi/6 rotation when switching between tilesets (i am still lost in the code as you may have noticed, i don't know if it just s:pi/4:pi/6:g or a big task, or even it is worth some effort)
alain_bkr (sorry to edit again this ticket, which is now far from what i thought to be a bug.)
This is a rather subtle and important subject , so while i am at it, i write things to clarify, and will propose something in the doc/HACKING or wiki if it seems useful.
Strictly speaking, Topology is a matter of being abble to continuously transform one object into another (that is without adding or removing holes in it)
There are 2 different tiles topologies in freeciv :
It is impossible to transform 8 connections into 6 without removing something, so they are mathematically different topologies. This concerns the server , which handles the rules (can move from here to there)
When one generates a map, he chooses :
This gives the map topology
For square tile topology 1 2 ------ ---------- | | | | /\/\/\ ------ \/\/\/ | | | | /\/\/\ ------ -------
* same thing for hex
=> there are 4 maps topologies.
The map topology is decided by the the server , which sends it to the client. The only case where the client send topology informations is when the client asks for the server to create a map.
Iso view or top view concerns the client, which is able to correctly display a map with compatible tiles (square or hex)
=> The same thing could be done for hex , with a pi/6 or pi/3 rotation of something in the client.
Here i don't know what was made for square in order to make the client display stuff correctly. To be continued ...
alain_bkr)
alain_bkr alain_bkr alain_bkr https://www.hostedredmine.com/projects/freeciv/wiki/26tilesets
https://www.hostedredmine.com/issues/653727 Possibility to force tileset with different topology (like v2.5)
https://www.hostedredmine.com/issues/777520 Tileset topology compatibility levels now that overhead and iso tileset settings have been combined (for square topology tilesets)
https://www.hostedredmine.com/issues/685235 2.6 tileset selection is still a bit incoherent
Edited : This ticket was open as a bug report, and it was a feature, linked to subttle things.
=> changed to a task : documentation for new developpers, who will probably be as lost as i was. The current documentation exists, but there are some subttle and baffling things that i plan to write as i understand them (or fall in the trap)
In S2_6, there were 4 types of defaults tileset : (iso or not) x (square or hex)
In 3_0 there remains only 3 types in the code, where topology = square is supposed to handle both 'square' cases (iso and non-iso). This is not possible because "geography" on screen is really different :
For hex tiles, this could have been possible, if and only if the tiles where orientented in the same way, but sadly they are rotated by pi/2 (one have 2 horizontal sides, and the other 2 vertical ) (see data/*/grid.png)
(Accordingly fc30-client-gtk* , and associated file freeciv-client-rc-3.0 have changed too.)
Overview is used in several scenarios, with known map (europe, world ...), which get distorted, and this is very visible.->bad player's feeling.